Chinese/Japanese?

if you want to work in japan - japanese. anywhere else - chinese(mandarin).

Not to be racist -- but this is the reality with Asians (i.e. Chinese and Japanese culture).

If you're not of Chinese-descent, learning Mandarin will make you a more attractive job candidate, but you'll still not earn any credibility in front of your Chinese clients and peers. Hence, stick with English whenever your communicating.

Similarly, the same goes for individuals who are not of Japanese-descent with regards to the Japanese language.

For your reference, I know all of English, Cantonese, Mandarin and Japanese; I am of Chinese-descent.

Mandarine hands down.

>1.5b speak mandarine, in many parts of the world. ~

somecdndude is absolutely right.

i dunno about the comment concerning koreans

.

yankees: regarding 1.5B speaking mandarine.

It's a good estimate. Heaps of Chinese population (including Taiwan and HK and Singapore etc...) that's all over the world, outside China. Also, I don't understand how you could say 'people in china don't speak mandarine'. Granted, for Canton province, for some. But I'm yet to meet a mainland chinese person who speak no Mandarine.

I lived in HKG and visit china all the time. All the girls I hook up with can only speak mandarine, because they all come from rural area for quick cash.

i think what's necessary to understand here is an employer probably won't be too impressed if you've taken a couple of years of chinese at college or listened to a few hours of pimsleur and can order dim sum or ask how much a roll of toilet paper is. however, if you're going to pursue fluency and will study abroad to attain it, then definitely go for it.

Of course, there's local dialect (i.e. Cantonese, Shanghainese, Taiwanese, etc, etc) in China but after all, Mandarin is Pu Tong Hua (English Translation: Common / Widely Adapted Language). Perhaps that was what yankees is referring to? I agree, however, that 99% of the Chinese individuals out there understand Mandarin. Hong Kong (less so for Guangdong Province) is really the exception.

白人看不懂

HAHAHA

Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese and Korean other than English..

The only time I find those languages useful is when I watch cheesy dramas or movies.

Seriously, learning Chinese or Japanese is not gonna give you a competitive advantage. Just stop for a moment, and if you are at school, think about how many Asians are in your class, or if you are at work, how many asian dudes are in cubes next to you. Now who would you rather trust with an Asian language, the 20 asian guys or the white guy?

Not to interrupt the gathering consensus here, but it depends on how well you speak it and what school you go to. I'm a white guy who goes to a target recruiting school and speaks Japanese, and both me and another guy who speaks Japanese received tons of interest from Japanese recruiters. As for me, I told them I wasn't interested, but the other guy pursued it and was ultimately made an offer he couldn't refuse. He's going to be making well above what he'd be making for the same job here.

Before you argue, the reason is that what they really want from you is to speak ENGLISH over there--Japanese people can't sell and trade derivatives or provide M&A advice to Australian, British and American clients like you can. But the fact that you speak Japanese allows you to work in the Japanese firm without getting lost. A ton of expats work in Japan who can't speak Japanese at all, but your chances grow exponentially if you can. For example, several top i-banks turned me down for 1st rd interviews, only to forward my resume onto their Japan recruiters, who contacted me and asked me to interview with them instead.

What are you talking about, xistguru? Knowing another language is always going to give you a competitive advantage. At least you can order takeway from a Chinese restaurant using Mandarin. On a more serious note, get your head checked.

I'm not sure I can completely agree with what steady state is saying.

Japan is a totally different ballgame. For my discussions above regarding the Chinese/Language, I'm referring to general business and society overall, and not specifically in investment banking.

Japanese IBD recruiting is radically different than US or HK recruiting. For instance, every single year there is this Japanese Career Fair held in Boston. I know a friend from my university, who is of Japanese-descent and can speak Japanese, attended that job fair back in November. She was interested in summer analysts opportunities in Tokyo. According to what she told me, she literally walked up to the recruiter / professional / whoever at the first BB she saw (think non-American based BB; like UBS / DB / CS / etc), and she was given a JOB OFFER on the spot. In fact, the recruiter encouraged her to STOP going to other booths of other ibanks and just take the opportunity.

As far as what I understand, Japan is so different because the Japanese language is essential for any business in Japan. Unlike other Asian locations (i.e. Singapore, HK, even Shanghai and Beijing now), there are numerous professionals who have been educated overseas. To them, English is almost like a quasi-requirement before anything, and the local native language is a given. In Japan, English is a highly sought commodity. As well, in absolute numbers, there are probably more Chinese overseas students than Japanese overseas students. Hence, to ibanks in Japan, any individual with decent level of Japanese and fluent English is a highly sought candidate.

To "steady state", what's your and your another guy's fluency in Japanese? I'm assuming you're proficient with hiragana and katakana. How's Kanji and teineigo?

Do a different language. The orientals will discriminate against you as long as you are white or black, regardless of your fluency. They discriminate against each other too (Japanese vs. Chinese vs. Koreans).

Also, the whole business of learning Japanese/Korean/Mandarin/Cantonese might seem very exotic and romantic, but you need to be very aware of the cultural differences between the West and the East. I know people who shipped off and were not prepared for it and were miserable.

The post above me is very accurate and worth considering.

somecdndood: 白人看不懂

haha, nice.

Basically.

It means "White people can't read/understand this"

I've seen it on some t-shirts.

You just ruined the fun... sigh

哈哈真的太閒了

To somecdndude,

I agree with what you wrote. Japan is definitely very different from China, so your point is taken. As far as how fluent my friend and I are, we both speak, read and write, including kanji and keigo/business Japanese, etc.

actually i'm chinese decent (many generations) but born and raised for 10 yrs in a southeast asian country. because I have a little mix of this southeas asian country, I don't look totally chinese and many people guess that I'm japanese before they say I'm chinese. So i guess i can pass of as both.

I don't know why the comments on needing to stick with english when I speak and write english perfectly well.

Thanks for the input anyway:-)

actually i'm chinese decent (many generations) but born and raised for 10 yrs in a southeast asian country. because I have a little mix of this southeas asian country, I don't look totally chinese and many people guess that I'm japanese before they say I'm chinese. So i guess i can pass of as both.

I don't know why the comments on needing to stick with english when I speak and write english perfectly well.

Thanks for the input anyway:-)

counter to cdndude's comment about Chinese perceptions of white folks speaking Mandarin. i'm a white mandarin-speaking guy and after coming to HK w/a degree from a non-target, by knocking on doors and cold-calling, I have competing offers. Yes, Chinese are racist, and no, they don't like foreigners, largely for historical reasons, but in business their goal is to make money. You don't need to like someone to go into business with them, but you do need to trust them. Due to the corruption inherent in any developing country, there's a general perception in China that Chinese are dishonest, but that Westerners are honest, effective, established businesspeople.

IF you were an american student that wanted to work as an analyst in HK, would not knowing an asian language hurt me greatly, or just limit me to specific banks?

Chinese tend to not trust other chinese when dealing with money. As racist and stereotypical as this statement is, just look at the savings rate in these countries! They would rather keep their money in the bank than invest it with someone else.

People appreciate it when you respect their culture and language. If you make an effort to learn their customs, I can't see how that would make you look dishonest. What happens is that people confuse learning the language with understanding the culture. Just because you can say 'ni hao' doesn't mean I'm going to give you my damn money.

As for getting around in HK w/o language, I believe that english is comparatively useful to mandarin in HK. However, if you can speak cantonese, you will be very valuable.

I'm half Asian (half Gringo). I've never met much reaction speaking any asian language. I think I'm accepted as a pure Asian and I'm excused for having a bad accent in some.

reason for knowing chinese, as a foreigner, is never to translate shit for your boss. it's to make sales, which in the deceptively small world of china, is all about connections and LT relationships. a foreigner speaking chinese makes this impression: 'i am a foreign professional who took the time to learn your language and understand your culture'. it's flattering. if you can throw in a couple of 成语, knowledge of chinese history and jokes about 老外 , you're their new favorite performing monkey, and they'll want to introduce you to all their friends. combine that with actually knowing what you're talking about as a finance professional and you've got the ability to draw respect pretty easily.

what's funny is when ppl go to live in japan for a few years, find a japanese girlfriend, come back to the states and then when they speak japanese they sound like a woman

em, anonymous post-rugby 7's internet confession here...same deal in china...to my dismay i was told i spoke like a girl for a while. but for the record, after a little effort, i speak like a manly 东北man now. hoo-ah!

The Chinese don't have a special feminine way of speaking. The Japanese and Koreans do.

Two ex-boyfriends of mine with Asian fetishes both spent years abroad, one in Korea and one in Japan. The way they came back speaking made it obvious how they learned the languages so quickly.

By the way, the Chinese phrase up there translates to "Gringos no comprendan."