Whomst Hardo?

I want to share a very simple idea, but which not everybody has enough common sense to understand. There is an entire preconception about “hardos” in finance. Many times I have heard people say that they need to enjoy life, to relax, that they’ll become disappointed by the reality of the industry, but this is non-sense. To achieve something you need to be obsessed. 

It is competitive to get into high-finance (before criticizing this word as prestige-whore, it always served a purpose, namely differenting between financial reporting in a local shop in Botswana vs. the Wall Street sort of finance, it was never about prestige), and also people that get in those jobs are usually from good schools, so when someone criticizes a hardo it tends to be someone that is clearly in this industry and also is on another bread of corporate America, but even then, is he Buffett? No. Is he Ackman? No. Is he Icahn? No. Who is he? Probably a depressed guy sitting in high-finance job that followed a conventional path that trapped him because of his limited perspective, imagination, and perspective. Obviously, yes, priorities may change over one’s lifetime, but who sits on the top of high-finance? People that at 40, 50, and 60 years old still enjoy what their do, the what would mocked nowadays as “hardos”. There are no balls to criticze them, but if you saw them at 20 years old you would be perfectly screaming to Howard Marks, Jamie Dimon or to Ken Griffin “sheesh, just chill man, there’s more in life, leave as soon as you finish your work and enjoy a beer”.

Let me ask you how often to you hear the sort of ambitious that is present among the 20 years old in people above 30 or 40 years old? Very rare. Why? Life did not end up being what they expected, they had to swallow some harsh truths, they may feel lost in their decision, and so on. So why give authority to someone that is in this place when you have the other side, the people that sit on the top of finance and really enjoy what they do?

And don’t start with “You’re crazy if you think you’ll be the next Schwarzman”, because is true, meanwhile you may not be the next Schwarzman or Jim Simons, you may definietely become something. If not, at least you tried (read the Man in the Arena speech by Roosvelt). Wouldn’t it be strange if I tell you that many people that sit on the top of finance were obssed with what they were doing (hardos) and they also dreamed big and had some big historical figures that they wanted to resemble (I mean, Alan Greespan worshipped the Corporate Titans of the 19th Cenutry, this tells you something, and who knows how many people in the top 0.01% have their secret idols such as resembling the Medici, or Napoleon, or whoever the fuck else you may think of — it doesn’t matter, what matters is that hardos have ideals, and not simply a paycheck to have a great house with a great family (which are nice on their own, don’t get me wrong)).

I don’t think people really understand that different characters desire different things from life, and that one must be really arrogant and narrowly minded to think that everybody should strive for a family life. Unless you’re a philosophy doctorate with 30 years studying existentialism and answering the big “why” and “what” questions on life, then one’s word on this topic is an opinion. Personally, I would die of depressing to settle down at a level that many people consider it a “normal life”, and let’s be frank, there’s a difference between hardos and between career men that just want a normal job to enjoy themselves. Power and prestige has its perks as well, and if you disagree, at least it energizes some us, it’s a deep exalted state of mind that not erverybody gets it — but it’s still better than feeling nothing about what you do I guess. 

And looking at Excel all day or updating comp tables is not what I’m talking about. Neither the corporate bureaucracy, because that’s precisely what the depressed 30–40 years old guy that’s depressed will first think of. 

This is more a post towards those entering the workforce. The only advice you should be listening from are those people that are at the peak of their game, and not anyone, because even among high-finance there are different traits between losers, average, and the best (and the last are the ones we should try to emulate). The other 2 will just suck your energy, your spirit an your entire will to aspire to something more. Their entire reasoning on life is tied to finding 'happiness' but I just pity them. They lack the perspective to understand the potential that there's on the other side of this mindset.

Among the current 20-somethign years old joining the workforce, as the cycle of live proved for thousands of years, they will be taking the place of future Board of Directors, C-Suite, and the full executive consortiums of banks, funds, companies and so on. So yes, you can call them "hardos" but just understand that if you continue in this industry they'll be the ones sitting on top of you. Either join the hardo haters, or respect them, but that's the inevitable future outcome. Being hardo as well doesn't mean one doesnt' enjoy its family, etc. but it's more of an obsession and at 20 years old it's too young to think about writing your will. Fuck that.

Felt inspired to write this after reading an old comment I left in another thread: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/investment-…

 

Based on the most helpful WSO content, the term "hardo" in the finance industry typically refers to someone who is extremely dedicated, often excessively, to their work or career advancement. This dedication is sometimes viewed negatively by peers, especially when it appears to be for the sake of appearances rather than genuine productivity or passion for the work.

In the context of Wall Street Oasis discussions, a "hardo" can be seen in various lights: 1. Ambition and Drive: Some view the hardo as a highly ambitious individual who is willing to go above and beyond to achieve career goals. This can be admired, especially in competitive fields like investment banking or private equity. 2. Overzealous Behavior: On the flip side, hardos are often criticized for engaging in behavior that seems more about showing off or outdoing colleagues than about actual job requirements. This includes staying late unnecessarily, dressing overly formal in casual settings, or constantly talking about work-related achievements. 3. Impact on Lifestyle: There's a discussion about the balance between work and personal life. Hardos are often perceived as sacrificing personal time and relationships in favor of work, which can lead to burnout or a lack of fulfillment outside of professional achievements.

The debate around being a hardo involves weighing the benefits of extreme dedication against the potential personal costs. It's a nuanced topic that reflects broader conversations in finance about work-life balance, mental health, and the true meaning of success.

Sources: Biggest Hardo Stories, Death from Overwork (Karōshi) in Finance

I'm an AI bot trained on the most helpful WSO content across 17+ years.
 
Most Helpful

Not completely wrong, especially first half. The issue is when "hardos" make other people miserable, but being extremely dedicated to what you're doing while still being easy to get along with is a superpower. 

You can even take a look at the greats in other industries, e.g Taylor Swift for music, Michael Jordan for basketball, etc. All are obsessed about their craft and would be called "hardos" if they had the same work ethic in finance as a junior. 

 

Yeah to be truly successful you have to be obsessed. 

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

Being a hardo isn’t just being super dedicated, it’s when you’re a giant douchebag that’s difficult to get along with in combination with being super dedicated. All the ppl you mentioned are extremely dedicated, but they’re also personable and understand the importance of building and maintaining relationships, which is probably the biggest reason for their success if you ask me.

 

Here's my problem with "hardos": Every time I sit down with them (social setting, on a weekend, trying to disconnect from stressful things etc.), they will talk about the hours they are pulling, inquire in depth to find out mine, talk about others a LOT (who got laid off, who is doing bad, who is still recruiting), talk about famous investors and influencers etc etc.

Not once will they talk about something new they learnt on a deal, or a new sector they're reading up on, or an inspiring experience at their work, or their goals in terms of the impact they want to make.

That's not ambition. That's not drive. That's just pathetic. That's why I hate hardos.

 

I think that there is a confusion between hardos meaning people who really care about their job and hardos meaning people who are douchebags and try to flex finance knowledge or be a prestige whore.

I’ve always taken hardos to mean the latter. People who may like the job but really just people who care too much about the bullshit around the job. Whether it be the “preftige” of working in high-fuh-nance and grind just for external purposes sake. These d-bags are usually insufferable.

people on the other hand who work really hard and enjoy finance for what it is can be normal to talk to, just workaholics or dedicated to finance or whatever profession. I’m sure people like Taylor Swift are fine people to talk to, just a dedicated to their craft.

 

Et laborum qui nihil eum. Quis dolorem facere delectus exercitationem laborum. Reiciendis maxime aut quae omnis blanditiis alias. Debitis possimus quo architecto culpa.

Molestiae et et cupiditate qui et eum. Ea quia nihil ea numquam aliquam sed quos. Quas officiis distinctio facere molestias.

Ut maiores voluptatem et. Delectus fuga quasi autem aut autem delectus. Eligendi placeat vel atque dolor sunt doloremque amet.

Career Advancement Opportunities

May 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Lazard Freres No 98.9%
  • Harris Williams & Co. 25 98.3%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 04 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

May 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.9%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 04 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

May 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.9%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

May 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (21) $373
  • Associates (91) $259
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (14) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (68) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (205) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (147) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”