Leaving the "successful track"

There are many way to measure success beyond your bank account balance and the name on your business card. Just because you didn't find success, or more specifically fulfillment, in the Wall Street sense doesn't mean you can't find both elsewhere and also make money while doing so.

Your options are not success vs. mediocrity.

If it's not for you it's not for you. Don't feel bad and don't look back.

You've already been there and done it, no point in torturing yourself over a few extra dollars.

You know what you don't want to do anymore - IB/PE. That's my $0.02, but I would suggest that you find what you really want to do with your 60 years of lifetime left. I guess you have enough savings to finance your projects, that's a great advantage. Reading your post, I feel that you want to make your own choices but at the same time you don't want to appear as a "loser" in front of your friends, acquaintances and family. Maybe move to a new country, and be finally free?

Seems like you care a lot about what your peers think about you. So what that they are 2 years further ahead or more "successful". You are comparing yourself to them and putting a lot of pressure on yourself when it isn't even really a competition.

This reminds me of myself when I first started law school. I also thought a lot about finishing it asap and be the best damn lawyer anyone has every seen so that I can stick it to my old high school buddies at the next reunion. Oh, look at me earning that much money, oh, look at me driving that car, oh, look at me I have my life in such order.

Eventually the undue pressure caught up and I had to really take a long look at myself in the mirror and asked myself, why? for what? for whom?

Eventually I came to the conclusion that life is long and that in the end what matters is that you have enjoyed the journey. What matters is that you have lived a meaningful life according to your own standards. The few years we spend doing something else instead of chasing "success" will have no impact whatsoever when we look back on our lives.

You have to decide what success looks like to you, and judging by your post, its not what you are chasing right now but at the same time you are basing every decision on that perception.

do you enjoy the work you’re doing? I’m not sure how different pe funds in Asia are vs the states, but there are definitely a lot of funds in the states that find WLB important. if you’re working at a really good shop could you lateral to a fund with better WLB? or have you tried doing that but to no avail?

You are only leaving the "success track" if you honestly think that you will not be "successful" unless you slave away in IB/PE. Can you honestly say that people not on that track--including those that have started their own business, working in data science, gotten on the C-suite track at a large corporation, or are doing any number of other things in their lives aren't successful?

There are lots of ways to make good money and have a rewarding career out there, and I guarantee you that most of the folks on some of the tracks I described would have no interest in slaving away in PE.

DM me. I want to share some stuff but don't want to post on the main thread

Congratulations for seeing the light. Note that moving to the corporate does not mean you will be mediocre. In fact, on the corporate side, you will be a rockstar.

When I came over to corporate, I worked maybe 45 to 50 hours per week. Everyone else worked 40. Whenever, I got an e-mail after work hours (rarely), I would answer it right away.... unlike everyone else. My bosses thought I was so hard-working while every day felt like vacation to me.

Bring some of that IB work ethic to a corporate role, and you're going to blow everyone out of the water and will be very successful.

I'd jump ship asap. You've done your time and that time has taken its toll on you.

Run your personal budget, see what you need to make (if anything), downgrade your lifestyle if it's out of means of the new budget, and put in your two weeks asap.

Take a much needed break for R&R even if it's just pursuing a hobby or interest. Travel when the virus loosens its grip. Spend time with family. You'll be SO grateful you did this for yourself.

Health is wealth brochacho.

You sound so in the trenches that its hard for you to see clearly and think things through. I understand that it isn't always possible, but you really need some time away to clear your head and relax. Perhaps a short medical leave? (If you're as young as you are and having BP issues, that might not be a bullshit excuse in the least).

It might be much easier to think about what you truly want and how you feel about things once you've gotten out of the foxhole for a little bit. If not then try and get some vacation time and unplug as much as possible.

I would advise, if you cannot handle the stress, don't. Those who succeed in a deal-related profession are able to cope with the stress - it doesn't viscerally grip them with terror. Deals are incredibly stressful but in the scope of life the stakes are comparatively very low for many deals - how much richer will the rich get on this deal?! It's all down to me!!

If you feel depressed and unable to cope with this environment, it's unlikely to get any better for you as you climb the latter - I'd consider doing something that is more suited to your personality

Thanks a lot guys! SBed everyone here

I am still swamped with random tasks and limited guidance... So I am quite struggled with work atm and will reply with more details maybe tomorrow.

Really appreciate all the advice you guys gave me!

Join the triads.

I know this is going to sound silly and New Age-y, but it's just a thought.

You are doing a great job here, taking a moment to vent and get some opinions. It is good to get in touch with what you're feeling.

If your body and mind (!) are rebelling, then yes, it is time for a change. It can be a mental change - finding ways to reframe and cope with the stress, or time to find another opportunity.

There is nothing to say you cannot make excellent money elsewhere, doing something different, regardless of US vs. Asia. Don't go to that limiting belief.

When you do have some time, really center and ground yourself. Go sit somewhere peaceful, quiet. Relax, and think. You do have options with your background. It IS ok to say "YES! I did it! I met my career goal, best opportunity to make serious $$, and now I am on to the next thing!" It's ok to leave IB, or any job that is damaging you mentally or physically.

Awesome to get ideas here and chat it out. Take that, and take yourself, and sit quietly listening to your intuition. You know what is right for you. If you were smart enough to get into such a top career and see it through to PE, you are MORE THAN smart and resourceful and connected enough to move to the next stage in your life and career. It does not have to be mediocre - why even think that way. What you do next could be greater, bigger, more enriching than you ever imagined.

Life, and careers, are a long-term prospect. It is not a jail sentence, it's a journey as the cliche goes. Give yourself the freedom to explore other ideas. It is ok to leave PE. There is nothing to say you cannot make your way back if necessary. It doesn't sound like you're so hot on school and that is just a time-filler until you have a better idea. Law or medicine may well land you in the same exact spot 7 years from now.

Just take some time to think what else fascinates you. What are you passionate about? Really think positive, and don't be so convinced already that your career (which does not = you, by the way! although that's what people here often hint at) will be anywhere near mediocre just because you move on from PE.

Think of the umpteen people you know or read about or who are in the public sphere that have hugely successful careers and businesses doing all sorts of things. There is only a limit if you put a limit on yourself mentally.

Deep breath - calm - what resonates with you, what keeps appearing in your head, your dreams is a great start. All you have to do is make some inroads. Some research, some contacts, chip away in little steps towards a new move for yourself. I think what you have to get over the most is your own disappointment with yourself for "not being able to hack it." This idea that you will no longer be successful. I know that you know logically that this is purely a mental construct, and part of the business...we convince ourselves that IB/PE is the be-all, end-all, our identity. I promise you, you haven't failed anyone if you move on.

Another option is to really truly investigate ways to cope with stress, like EFT (tapping - look it up), meditation, etc. in order to stay at your job in a healthier way. This may be helpful for you and beats drugs, cardiologists and worried parents. You don't need to beat yourself up for struggling with what is a brutal lifestyle. We are not saving lives - it's much easier to justify the stress,expectations and hours if you're doing a service to humanity. It's easy to get disenfranchised with years of endless insane expectations. If you work on new methods to cope, maybe you can stay in the game. Do you adore the work? What's the real issue?

Good luck and keep us posted - you are a huge success and will continue to be - you will find your next passion and go after it as hard as you have IB/PE!

my adivce would be go to B school. With your credientals you could easily get into an MBA business schools">M7 school (barring your gmat is decent ). If you decide you can go to B school you can learn and make so many new connections that will allow you to pivot your career into something that you will love.

OP - best to try to do some deep thinking. What motivated you to do this path? What is still motivating you? How strong is that motivation? Is it worth what you are going through now?

Remember, very few who keep going end up making MD/Partner at the big shops. And it's not just skill. A lot of it is luck (markets) or network (who you know). Really. Especially in Asia, where I have spent most of my professional career it comes down to one or both of those things. NOT grit or whatever.

To take a page out of pr4mence (+SB) imagine the same scenario, except that you are a VP/Director. You've lost your hair, are unhealthy, and lucky to have your family and pad. You've been grinding it out hard. You are up for MD/Partner. You are excited because you finally, sourced and led a deal the IC approved after working on it for years (yes sourcing can take that long). Markets turn and your big deal/investment goes south. Or you get a news alert on your phone that the CEO of the company is very publicly arrested for whatever it is they arrest people for in EM (sometimes legit sometimes politics - everyone has skeletons in their closet, it's EM). You get forced to leave and everyone in the market knows you led the deal. Or your boss says forget any promotion. Or you have to go to some less prominent shop to grind just as hard as that permanent VP/Director...

You will think to yourself... Was this all really worth it? Most in this business either don't survive that long, or get pushed out or stall. Sometimes it's their fault, but so often it is out of their control.

In short, it's not your fault. Health is wealth, so look after yourself.

Good Luck

There is nothing wrong with taking a long break in your career now and think about where you want to go. You have a decent amount of experience behind you now. Taking one year gap year now is not going to be a detriment to your career as long as you can come back and explain what you've done in your interviews.

When we are 6 feet under, it won't matter if you were in IB or PE or Corp Dev or a McDonald's. What's gonna matter is if we were happy, that's all.

If you're in HK, I'd be happy to meet in person and discuss. Feel free to DM.

I think part of the reason why people stay, is because the job is so consuming that after 4 years you really can't have a lot else in your life. Friendships haven't been maintained, hobbies haven't been cultivated, and any girlfriend you had would also have been cool with seeing you so rarely, you gotta ask how much she really likes you, to put it bluntly.

So leaving is like staring into the void.

I think a lot of people in these types of jobs are self-medicating loneliness with professional stimulation, and that a high pressure job is actually a good way for them to find human connection. This might help you understand why you are worrying about leaving.

Another reason why it is hard to step off of the achievement treadmill: dopamine is the happiness chemical related to the anticipation of some exciting thing.

To get into IB you basically need to have been thinking about it for years in advance, so you've been running on just dopamine for a long time.

It sounds like it has been pretty rewarding for you up until recently, and the social validation from professional success also feels really good. When people get to that point when they've achieved their original goal and are still not full-filled, they often just arbitrarily create a new one, or stay on the track they're already on, even if they are suffering from stress or something as a result.

Remarkable to me how many people want tracked careers and view a deviation from that as failing to achieve “success.”

Career / life success should be about finding something that you love that rewards you, whether that reward is financial or not. That may come working for huge, well-known firms. Or it may not

Hey man,

The first thing I wanna tell you is to keep your head high and your health (mental and physical) in check. No job in the world is worth dying for, especially for a guy in his mid-20s/early-30s.

Second, the “success” track is relative. Who are you doing this for? LinkedIn connections to flex on (they’ll lose respect for you if you lateral over into an FLDP)? The faceless masses who’ll be impressed by your “preftige” (if they even exist)? You ultimately will make a choice to live for you, and your own happiness; we all do. Some people just make it much later than others. Besides, not everyone who’s worthy of being in your life is gonna know or care what the big, “important” finance companies are or even be impressed by them.

Third, you’ve gained your current work experience through literal health issues, blood, sweat, and tears. Don’t disrespect your own achievements by going down a lesser path for the false promise of “work-life balance” and even more false one of “happiness.” You’ve built up some very valuable skills. How can you use those skills to advance into an area you’re interested in, make more money, and be happier? You can get there, but not in the exhausted (and honestly, probably depressed and fed up) state that you’re in. Getting your worldview in check is the first step in all of this. More people (interviewers, potential friends, etc) will be drawn to an upbeat, positive guy with a strong sense of self than a dude who’s about to snap from exhaustion.

Can you take a leave of absence at your company? They last at most about a year and are usually unpaid. Now might be a weird time to take it (COVID and all that), but perhaps not – it’s literally a time to force yourself to think about what you want and what makes you happy. I don’t have those answers for you, but I’m thinking that you know what they are deep down. It sounds like you have the money to take your foot off the gas and coast for a little bit; take advantage of it. I genuinely hope that everything works out for you.

Keep your head up. Much easier said than done, of course, but you can do it. Good luck.

The lack of success with corporate roles may well be due to companies not understanding your experience and how it could translate into their framework. If you can find a competent, experienced headhunter (they exist!) he/she should be able to coach you and advise you on how to re-word and pitch your experience to date. They could also broker introductions to firms that can see your potential.

The IB/PE track sounds pretty shitty if you ask me. You grind your ass to get into a target school. Then grind for SA. Then grind in your analyst years to get into PE. Then you burn out in PE. Or get fired. Your skills are not very transferable to entrepreneurship or other industries.

You can "downgrade" to corporate finance but you'll take a paycut. Actually, at this point, any career move would be a downgrade for you. Then it becomes a game of greed vs. your stamina to keep playing.

My advice is to find a way to transition into PM role at a FAANG tech company. You might need a MBA. Oh and if you're in tech, you'll need to exit Asia. The only place that will compensate you well is in the states

Guys, just a quick update.

Not sure if anyone is still reading this post. I haven't quit but things are not getting any better. Sorry for not posting anything during the time. I have been swamped with work and I received poor feedback this cycle.

I feel that the unhappiness and poor feedback have become an endless cycle that hurts me. I am demotivated and depressed to work. I don't even know if I can get myself back on track anymore. I remember there was an interview question in the interview guide: what is the first thing you are looking forward to when you wake up everyday. For me, the first thing I am hoping for is just going back to bed again.

While I understand everyone's advice here... Quitting is a tough decision to make for me when I am empty-handed. I have limited success to land a lateral interview (to non-IB/PE positions such as corp dev/fp&a) for last 2 years and I have been actively looking for opportunities in last month but it is not going anywhere under the covid environment. I am trying and I hope miracles will happen. But I am planning for the worst I guess

In the meantime, I have applied to schools and non-profit volunteering positions similar to TFA (at least these can let me take a break to rethink my career while doing something meaningful). However, my company requires a very long notice before resignation. Taking that into account, I am more than half way to collect next year's bonus. I don't know if I should just suck it up because the dangling carrot ahead is just too attractive...

Thanks a lot guys... You all have been very supportive to me and tbh I cried a bit when I read the comments. I guess I am just not the guy who is tough enough for finance

Oh man this is cringe.

You bought in to the WSO dogma of IB or bust, now you have buyers remorse. You already knew it was going to be shit when you started out.

By definition, not everyone can get to the juicy part of the IB path, becoming a deal maker (due to the sheer number of people in the industry/continuous flow), hence the majority are sitting making presentations look pretty for most of their career - I don’t see how that is attractive past the first two-four years. The only thing that would make you do it is money, perceived prestige and perceived transferable skills, both of the latter only exist in some fantasy realm online. Those that do stick it out, become very one dimensional, skilled in a very narrow domain, to the detriment of the rest of their life - the important things - health, relationships, family, relaxation. The hours do not improve, if anything, they increase.

You must have a little bit of cash saved up. And I’m sure you can think of doing something better than a bakery or IB interview consulting (Try spending more than 20 seconds thinking this time). The majority of the super rich have very unsexy businesses. Gas stations. Cardboard box factories. Distribution. Probably equally as unfulfilling but at least you get taxed less.

Quit and go travelling. Read tonnes of books.

Suggested reading for you: Young money - Kevin roose (follows 4 real life finance graduates, they all leave IB after 2 years from what I remember) The defining decade: Meg jay

An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, “only a little while. The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs. The American then asked, “but what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.” The American scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.”

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”

To which the American replied, “15 – 20 years.”

“But what then?” Asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions!”

“Millions – then what?”

The American said, “Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”