I’m a recruited athlete who’s trying to decide between these schools. I definitely want to work on Wall Street after graduation but also want a good experience as an athlete. Of course I would want to go to a D1 like Holy Cross or Cornell, but I know schools like Uchicago and Williams are better for IB. Could I get a ranking for them? And your guy’s opinions on them for Wall Street?
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1) UChicago
2) Cornell
3) JHU
4) Williams
5) Holy Cross
Hopkins over Williams? At least act like you know what you're talking about
So are we going to act that Hopkins isn't one of the best schools in the country in terms of academics and internships?
What’s a Williams?
With wanting Wall St and D1, I would choose Cornell.
I would agree with this. I was being recruited by UChicago and I decided to go somewhere else because it wouldn't have been a good fit for me. Biggest thing for you is to choose the place you will fit in the most, be able to have a good time, and succeed. Not sure how well Holy Cross does with placing kids on Wall St, but all the other schools you listed are really good and as long as you get good grades, network, and aren't weird, you shouldn't have any problem making it.
Wouldn’t say Chicago is better than Cornell for Wall Street, especially if you were recruited for AEM (which there are a lot of athletes in).
tf is holy cross
They place shockingly well into more old-school type firms. Before working at a big AM, I would not have been able to tell you but learned what it is because lots of their top people are alumni.
UChicago, Cornell, Hopkins, and Williams are certainly feasible and "relatively" easy (meaning strong campus recruitment from all major banks) when it comes to getting an IB job. Holy Cross is still doable but certainly less common on the street than the aforementioned group. I would definitely consider fit first and foremost at those four schools because they are all very different. But if you're indifferent among that group of four, UChicago has phenomenal placement across the board, Cornell probably sends the most on a raw quantity basis (largest school), Williams probably sends the most on a per-capita basis (notoriously tight-knit alumni network), and Hopkins similar to Williams in that regard. All in all, you have some very good options and IB is very doable.
Williams athletes kill it - just check the school's alumni on linkedin
Let's go EPHS!!!!
btw I played on a baseball team in BA with a guy who pitched at Williams
I was recruited to almost of all these plus a handful of other programs. Ended up turning down UChicago because it's D3 and Cornell because although it was D1, my alma mater was better for my sport (and still D1) and comparable academically. Looking back, if I wanted to pursue IB as my primary goal, my school, Cornell, and UChicago all would've been more or less equal for IB so I still would have chosen based on fit (and I didn't recruit for IB or know what it was in UG).
UChicago is not as big of a target for NY as it is made out to be on this forum. Solid placement for Chi, but Cornell will be better for NY, especially with DI sports.
Clearly written by a cornell undergraduate. No way in hell someone would go to Cornell if they had the choice between those schools. Unless A) you’re an athlete and want D1 or B) you’re unsure if you can handle uchicago’s intensity
Pretty sure Cornell is just as academically intense if not more so given that a lot of kids commit suicide from the stress lol. There is varying degrees of grade inflation depending on your major, but it’s actually quite high to have a 2.9 or 3.0 in engineering at Cornell, for example.
Nope, actually a UChi undergrad who had a tough time recruiting lol. There's literally hundreds of IB hardos at UChi, so obviously some will make it to the top places, but that skews the reality. I have quite a number of friends with 3.8+ GPAs and good networking who ended up with no offers and are now doing AM, S&T, ER, or something of the like. Maybe it's because of the bizecon major watering down everyone's GPAs, but there are tons of kids who end up with no offers.
The prospect above me doesn't know what he's talking about, probably because he's a prospect.
I'm an alum – UChicago career services sucks, but you probably won't need the help – network with alumni (they're everywhere you want to be and very responsive, including Booth alumni) and show some interest by joining one of the finance clubs (blue chips, UIBG, akpsi are all good options) and you'll be fine.
The school is a target for every BB in NY (except for Barclays for some reason, but we still place a few kids there) as well as all the EBs (especially PJT, Centerview, and Lazard). It's obviously the top target for IB in Chicago, and places well to the SF tech and HC scenes too (heard Chicago's actually the largest feeder or second largest feeder to MS Menlo and Qatalyst, not sure if it's true but certainly squares with where people I know placed).
The one thing to consider is that it's hard. You will certainly learn to work hard, think critically/as an economist, and manage time well at Chicago – in my experience this has been very valuable in my career, but if you are only in it to get out with a job and not work along the way, it's the wrong place to be.
Maybe it's changed since you've gone there, but see my above comment. IMO there are too many kids at UChi going for IB, and there aren't enough spots.
What year are you? Is it possible that the COVID situation resulted in less offers?
Also, do you think you could put a rough number on how many students per class are interested in IB and what % get an offer?
But it has way more spots relative to kids interested than almost any other school, including cornell
Can you pm me, I have a question
I think the obvious choice here is Cornell for great placement and D1 sports
Would also agree.
This is funny. uchi and the other schools are not in the same league. Academically and placement wise. Have a look at incoming BB/EB classes. You'd be very bold not to pick uchicago. Sure, if you got Columbia/Dartmouth than it would be a toss up but there is absolutely no comparison here.
Lol you’re right, they aren’t in the same league. Cornell is in the Ivy League and the other schools aren’t.
People on WSO keep throwing around “worst Ivy” like it’s supposed to mean something. It’s almost as meaningless as saying worst mega fund or worst of the MBB.
I went to a target that isn’t any of the listed ones and I would pick Cornell and Williams over UChicago. It’s subjective. Most of my buddies at UChicago hate it. I don’t think the marginal difference in “prestige” is worth a shittier experience, if there even is one between UChicago vs Cornell vs Williams.
Harvard
Quite a few good options here. Holy Cross is sort of the odd man out but I’m sure you could break in from there with some extra hustle.
Lot of Chicago and Cornell people on Wall Street. Cornell has Chicago outnumbered but that’s also a function of Cornell being a larger school. FWIW, almost every bank recruits at Cornell and at multiple banks, Cornell is the top feeder school (or top 3). Very good placement into JPM, Barclays, BAML, UBS, Evercore, Lazard, and Guggenheim. Decent presence at GS and starting to send more kids to Moelis, PJT, Centerview, and MS now. The placement is good for the school as a whole but the AEM placement is really solid given how small the class size is (59% of ~200 graduating seniors go into finance, with a little over 1/3 of those kids going into investment banking).
Chicago is a great school but it’s a bit ridiculous to think that no one would pick Cornell over it (better engineering program, solid undergrad business school, more fun to most people). I didn’t apply to Chicago but I have great respect for the school. You can’t go wrong with Cornell or Chicago but as others have mentioned, Cornell has D1 sports.
Happy to answer any questions if you want to PM me.
Cornell=Chicago (slight edge to Cornell for athletics, if you're deadset on D1) > Hopkins >>> Williams >>>> Holy Cross
Don’t underrate Williams. Unlike the other schools you listed almost every alum you reach out to at Williams will respond and talk with you. Makes networking really easy and alums will go to bat for you in recruiting process. While Williams may not have as much of a presence in IB numbers wise, I would imagine any kid with a 3.7+ at Williams who wants IB will land at a BB or EB
No relation to either school, and current associate at MFPE. Just my 2 cents, a few points here: 1) Analyst classes at my BB (GS/MS) had slightly more kids from Chicago than Cornell. Not a huge difference in headcount, but my understanding is Cornell has about 2x student body than Chicago. Take from this what you will. 2) If you want to do PE after banking, both schools are well represented, but I think Chicago widens its lead here at least at my MF. I’ve seen Booth alums also pull for the Chicago kids. 3) I have noticed, though, that the kids I’ve interviewed with from Cornell build much better rapport and networking relationships than kids from Chicago.
Going to stay objective here, just my observations. Hope it helps.
It's pretty simple. If you want D1 sports, go Cornell. Any other reasons, Chicago. No career penalties from either of these choices, important to enjoy your undergrad years.
UChicago undergrad is supposedly a poor cultural fit if you're the type to be gunning for ib, but it places well and there's a growing ib/preprofessional community. The mba program also has one of the strongest career services.
One of these things is not like the others. But seriously, if your goal is D1 and a school that gives you a good chance at Wall St, Cornell is the easy answer.
Yeah, one is a world class institution with an acceptance rate under 10% and the others (including Cornell) aren’t
Yeah no. Also it's hilarious that you're jerking off acceptance rate. You know Chicago had a 40% acceptance rate until like 10 years ago right?
Two rounds of ED to artificially boost yield will do that for ya
My view --
Holy Cross is the odd man out, in a different tier from an academic and placement perspective.
Cornell - accomplishes what you want with D1 sports. It is a huge program so lots of representation across most banks, but doesn't mean it isn't competitive to get roles. It is the clear weakest school in the Ivy league (this isn't a debate), so if you care about prestige that's maybe a negative, but otherwise good school and solid IB .
chicago- Not meant to be a “fun” school and competitive academically. Sports are a joke. Placements are great both on the east coast, west coast and Chicago itself. You'll also have access to certain EB / PE fund analyst roles not available to students graduating from these other schools. Access to booth classes and alumni also a big positive for them.
Williams - per capita great placement, but small total number of alumni and placements. Great sports but D3. Brand name very well regarded on the east coast, less well known outside of the region and internationally.
JHU - neither here nor there school for me. Great reputation for pre-med, med, biomed. Has a fair amount of people across most banks, but I don't know of anyone who dreamed of going to Hopkins (not majoring in above subjects), and always just seemed like a bit of a random program to me. No idea on their sports, but would guess better compared with Chicago at least.
Williams all the way. The network is unmatched, especially for athletes. If you want to work in investment banking, you have the network to get in. Alumni are more than willing to help, most big banks recruit directly. Also the experience as a student-athlete at Williams is very fun. I’m biased, but Williams is an amazing school with great outs.
Didn't go to Williams, but went to a nescac so a tad biased as well. From what i've seen williams places lights out and anyone who wants to get into IB does. Would rate it above cornell and then fuck uchicago heard that place sucks lol
Please do not tell this guy to choose Hopkins over Williams. Hopkins is a med/tech school with little placement while Williams absolutely kills it on a per capita basis. And yes, I know athletes at both of the schools- the Williams guy is interested in finance and the JHU guy is interested in tech. IMO if you are a fun, social, interesting guy who wants to go into banking the options are Cornell and Williams- Uchicago if you are less of a social butterfly. JHU is great if you think you might want to go into med or tech, but students at JHU just aren't that interested in finance compared to other schools.
And no- don't go to Holy Cross
https://twitter.com/WallStreetOasis/status/1296888311206883328
Current UChicago student here. Some things to consider:
It is a normal school in many ways - there is Greek life and there are parties. But the academic focus/nerdiness/snobbery is slightly up a notch and it is a very acdemically challenging place.
How difficult would you say it is to get a 3.7+ as an Econ major at Chicago while recruiting? Would I have a life?
That’s what I’m wondering right now as well.
It really depends. Just to use myself as a benchmark, I have a 3.7 and am a Business Econ major (the "easy" econ major - a relatively new program where you take Booth classes on top of regular undergrad econ) and going thru recruiting right now. FYI regular Econ major is a lot harder and has a lot more math. But Biz Econ is still not a cakewalk by any means.
Workload/difficulty? Really depends on how you structure your courses, but I remember grinding out myself hard during first year on core classes. Spent at least 50+ per week, and a lot more during midterm/final season. Second year I structured it so that I mostly take easy classes, but doing recruiting and club activities at the same time was really stressful. GPA slipped by 0.1 point. Good thing I had a 3.8 to begin with.
I've seen smarter people spend less time and (excuse my bluntness) dumber people spend more time. My intellect is nothing exceptional; there are clearly a ton of people smarter than me in UChicago. But I have my strengths and weaknesses and tried to maximize my strengths, so take that as what it is.
I've also seen easier classes result in better grades. It's def doable to take as many easy classes as possible and a very high GPA for recruiting season. The only catch is you pay your price later junior/senior year after recruiting.
Hope this helps. Plz feel free to ask any other questions
Have you seen the pre-med kids at Hopkins....?
?
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The people who are telling you “dude if you have a 3.8 at UChicago, you’re guaranteed IB” are kids still in school. There are thousands of applicants to each position and there are countless people who have over a 3.8 from schools better than UChicago (HYPSM, Wharton, Columbia, the non-Cornell Ivies) who don’t land IB. Take online opinions with a grain of salt.
Ideally, reach out to people you know from both schools. Better yet, reach out to people you know from both schools who work in the industry.
you're so stupid lmao
UChicago sucks, get over it.
Also your analyst 3 tag isn’t fooling anyone.
So to recap, this comes down to Cornell & Chicago. JHU is very respected, but is exclusively known for its great medical program. No one cares about Holy cross or Williams.
Cornell: Strong OCR, Ivy League brand, huge alumni network on Wall Street, D1, some grade deflation but varies across colleges, traditional campus vibe but in the middle of nowhere, really cold, closer to NYC.
Chicago: severe grade deflation, no OCR, D3, city vibe (but in a very dangerous city), really cold, farther from NYC, but good school & economics program.
Yeah far from NYC is a big minus if interested in NYC. But if you can get your parents to subsidize your recruiting efforts, take networking trips. I’ve had positive responses along the lines of “damn you flew all the way here to network? Nice hustle.”
Williams. In terms of undergrad education quality, William is no doubt No1 on this list. In terms of athletics, I'm sure you'll do fine anywhere you go cuz you already have the college athlete mentality. In terms of getting to the street, the alumni network is prob the most important factor that I would consider: if you start making connections in your first year, by the time recruiting kicks off, the bank prob already has an offer for you to sign. Good luck bud.
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In terms of undergrad, UChicago doesn't necessarily put their best professors in the classroom to teach a group of 20-year-olds. One of my closest friends goes to UChi and he said most large classes are managed by the TAs. Williams, on the other hand, puts all the resources and money toward their undergrads cuz they don't have grads...
Williams is the obvious choice here. U Chicago is toxic and so sweaty. You'll end up with serious mental health issues trying to get a 3.7. And is is not that prestigious in NYC. Cornell is the worst Ivy and also kinda toxic. You'll be fine there but it's miserable. At Williams, you get the best undergraduate teaching in the country and not many people want IB so you look a lot more competitive. Alums will fight for you. Holy Cross shouldn't be considered.
This website is full of semi/target kids who jerk eachother off to feel prestigious. Cornell, UChicago kids are the main culprits. HYPSM, Williams, Amherst, Dartmouth, Columbia are the real prestigious schools in NYC circles.
No one cares about Williams.
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In what world is Williams a "non-target"???? UChicago has undergraduate business program. That isn't good undergraduate teaching unless it is Wharton. The true prestigious colleges offer liberal arts curriculums. Everyone at Williams who wants IB gets it. Everyone else is going to Harvard Med School or Law. It's just a better overall school.
UChicago is a great undergraduate experience if you are an antisocial nerd who reads books on Lagrangian mechanics for fun
NYC circles? Have you seen any of WSJ’s college rankings? Cornell consistently ranks higher than Chicago, Dartmouth, Brown, and significantly higher than Williams. The bulk of WSJ’s methodology is based on student outcomes, followed by campus resources, not subjective bullshit that USNWR uses.
WSJ has Brown tied with Stanford what kind of shit is that
Uchi grad here, sibling goes to cornell. I'm going to try to be the first mature person on this thread. No one from any school, not even harvard, is guaranteed a job with a good gpa. Uchicago is the most prestigious school on this list, but to say anything about guaranteed jobs is ridiculous (as evidenced by the uchi grad on this thread who struck out). Are you guaranteed a couple top INTERVIEWS with a high gpa from UChi? Probably yes, provided you time it right, network well, and have the "polish" as someone said before. (However, this is also probably true for Cornell and Williams to a certain extent. Not sure about JHU) The thing is, most people do not have all 4: grades, polish, prep, timing. They might think they do, but they don't. Grades are hard to get, but the other four are just as important. Candidates from UChi often neglect the other 3. (and dont even realize it)
Here's the kicker, Cornell is a place more suitable for someone gunning for IB, and is a better place to get all 4 of those things. UChicago might give you slightly more respect from recruiters, but the amount of effort you'll have to put in to maintain a high gpa might make it not worth it. Cornell is hard, but not chicago hard. Cornell has an undergrad B-school (less need to prep on your own), the student body is way more normal and work-hard play-hard (polish- you'll likely have better social skills if you go to Cornell). The student body is more New York heavy, people talk about banking and recruiting - at UChi they don't because it would honestly hurt them socially to do so. If you're someone who's not capable of self-studying for interviews and would like to have a group of people to talk about finance to stay informed with, Cornell is by far a more suitable place. You won't miss the timeline for recruiting, because everyone will be talking about it.
Also something to consider, Cornell kids actually like their school. Most fellow chicago grads I know are happy college is over. This is really something to consider.
That said, WSO is always overflowing with cornell kids, so anyone reading this should keep that in mind. Cornell is huge and everyone wants a wall street job. This honestly makes recruiting a total shitshow for non-diversity and non-connected candidates. Way more people at Cornell are gunning for IB than at UChi (even today). Yet, in my experience at NYC EB, and from what I hear especially for Sf groups, UChi actually has more kids in most of the "top" groups. Cornell sends armies of kids to Capital markets and S&t roles and lots of kids to different coverage groups at BBs, but if you want the truly elite banking or buyside roles, I think UChi edges it out by a good margin (Cornell still places well though). In terms of respect you will gain from people on the street based on your school, i'd say its UChi>Cornell=Williams>>JHU fwiw. In terms of a streamlined path to wall street (provided you navigate the immense competition), Cornell takes the cake.
Williams is a wild card. They place really well per capita, and i've hear its relatively easy grading. but there are a lot of banks/groups with zero alumni, so your options might be limited
Goodness gracious this is the most toxic thread I’ve ever seen.
1. Cornell (good presence at almost all IBs both BB and EB, very pre professional school, lots of helpful clubs and large alumni network)
2. UChicago (also good presence, though slightly less so. Does amazing in Chicago banks obviously. Would prefer Chicago > Cornell for the school itself but Cornell > Chicago for Wall Street
Lots of space
3. Williams (smaller alumni group obviously, have yet to meet someone from Williams in IB, as a fellow NESCAC graduate I think NESCACs are way overrated)
Lots of space
4. JHU (unless doing healthcare IB? lol, not much of a contender here)
5. Holy Cross (some could argue this should actually go above JHU based on their decent presence...up to you / the individual)
Cornell is probably the most fun if you are a D1 athlete. Try to get into Dyson as it is stupid easy due to knucklehead football players and legacies. Williams has the best alumni but is the size of a public high school and is in the middle of buttfuck nowhere. UChicago is probably the best academically (definitely for econ) but the entire student body is miserable and you will have to work by far the hardest. All three of these are good options though, don't listen to anybody who claims one is clearly better than the others like a Harvard/Wharton would be. Just depends on your preferences.
Jesus so many Cornell kids on this thread that think they go to a top school...
Yeah lol stern is harder to get into than Cornell
Lol guess you didn’t see that Dyson’s acceptance rate was 2.9%. Gtfo with that stern shit.
Yeah you’re comparing apples to oranges buddy.
Bruh pretty much every ranking throughout time has said and continues to say Cornell is better than Chicago. All you have is US news which everyone knows is deeply flawed.
In my experience at uchi, most kids there who were accepted regular round were also accepted to (and turned down) a non-Cornell ivy. I’m not sure the transitive property applies here, but take that for what you will
US News is literally the only ranking people actually care about...
You do realize Cornell has a high acceptance rate because of the random ass programs right? Shit like agriculture, animal science, environmental science, bug science, meteorology, and wine making drive up the acceptance rate and bring down the average SAT/ACT. Despite that, Cornell’s stats are completely in-line with other Ivies. Stanford has an SAT range of 1440 to 1550 and an ACT range of 32 to 35. Cornell has an SAT range of 1420 to 1540 and the same ACT range WITH kids majoring in random shit. Check the common data sets.
I am 100% fine with kids from other Ivies/MIT/Stanford shitting on us. No one else has a leg to stand on and should sit the fuck down.
Sorry bud, uchicago duke williams Amherst and honestly Georgetown are more selective and prestigious.
Cornell definitely is a top school, and places quite well for banking. The problem is that Cornell kids are incredibly insecure about being the butt of all jokes in the Ivy League, and try to compensate by clinging on to the Ivy brand and ferociously defending their school on WSO. You see the same kind of insecurity from Kelley and Stern kids as well.
My ranking would be Cornell, UChicago, Williams, Hopkins, and last Holy Cross. Really, this decision should come down to Cornell vs UChicago, and what you're looking for. If you're in Dyson, that's a great program, and relatively easier so you'll be able to manage time better as a D1 athlete. UChicago has a more intellectual experience, and is also a very prestigious school. Cornell probably has a better social life, and will be more fun. Placement will be good from both as long as you work hard yourself. My vote would be for Cornell over Chicago, by a little bit.
Recent UChicago grad -
A lot of the comments above seem rather preoccupied with GPA as the end all and be all for recruiting. It's definitely worth mentioning that your odds of breaking into the industry WITHOUT a high GPA are almost infinitely higher coming from a target school. I personally know a few Chicago kids in Greek life and/or athletics with subpar grades (3.3 - 3.7) who networked their way into BB/EB/MM roles. Certainly the exception and not the rule, but it's been done time and time again. Pretty sure someone with the same GPA at a Cornell, Hopkins, etc. would be fucked but you're way more likely to get a pass on grades from a "better"/"harder" school
This thread is what I imagine Tik Tok is like
Don't think there's enough information to consider. The advantage you have is you clearly are going to a school with a career in mind. The best thing you can do for yourself today is advocate that as a deciding factor, and let your potential coach know what you're interested in doing. Don't be afraid, seriously. At these types of school, even if it's "obvious", it's not. Ask if there's any current or alumni players you could have a brief conversation with who are pursuing or in the career. Always ask.
That said, it sounds like you're a Senior based on being a recruited athlete. Would love to also hear where you are on these two questions:
1. Have you been on a recruiting trip to any of the mentioned schools? (This is important and there's a point to make)
2. Is your season a fall, winter or spring sport; and is it moving forward this year?
Was a college athlete, recruited by a handful of ivies as well as other top programs. Ended up going to the top program in the country, but was a shittier school.
One thing to point out, is that Ivies are not really D1. Like sure, they are in division 1, but they don't treat their athletes at all special to how they treat other students.
I say reach out to the coach at Duke and see if they can pull for you, or potentially Stanford, cal, or UCLA. There are other really good schools that will actually create a better athletic experience than any you mentioned, while also giving you the support to actually get a 4.0.
would also add Michigan to the list. top notch athletics, cohesive school culture (which revolves around d1 football and to an extent other sports), and alums who will pull for you on the street. Ross BBA program is on par w/ a number of Ivies for placement (especially NY). I turned down Michigan for another target where I received more $$ but all things equal would've gone
What sport. Am student athlete at Hopkins.
what even is holy cross.
boy you gonna get crossed if you do that school
There could be reasons why someone chooses Cornell over Chicago, especially if someone wants to be a division 1 athlete or wants to go to school on the east coast. Also if they want to study engineering/ computer science
That said, anyone on this forum who tries to argue Cornell is a better school / more prestigious is likely a Cornell student/ grad. Uchicago is more impressive and “elite” in almost every way. There’s just no getting around that.
I hate to see ppl on this forum mislead 17 year olds just to protect their own egos.
I wasn't making the case that Cornell is a "better" or "more prestigious" university, simply that for IB, Cornell is ahead of Uchi, and I am an undergrad there. I will be an alum and it would be in my best interest to hype up my alma mater, but I'm the one actually keeping it real.
What is HC D1 for? I thought they were D2. I was recruiting with them a tiny bit for football but I might just remember wrong since that was like 7 years ago and I didn't do much with them.
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