As I have noticed that Wells Fargo being shit on a lot(usually ranked in the same tier with Mizuho, SMBC...) on the forum, but the bank's pay/WLB/learning opp is ranked top among BBs in the database. Can someone explain this? Why is WF so bad in your eyes?
Also, as someone fairly new in S&T space, would you recommend to jump ship to a better brand(BB level) after a year from WF, or it's better to stay at the same place for a couple more years?
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Bad in the eyes of college kids? They're a younger and smaller investment bank that mostly does debt deals. They're usually top 10 in debt underwriting on league tables which is their strength, it's not M&A which many here prefer. Just going off FT tables here on my phone, but it looks like last year they were #9 in overall IB fees, one behind DB and two behind Barclays. I wouldn't say it is fair to call them a Mizuho or SMBC.
Do you see a future of WF being ranked in top 5 BB? considering WFS is very young, being American(stronger potential than EU, Asian competitors) and have a strong commercial arm
Think top 5 would be tough since you have JPM/GS/MS then rotating BoA/Citi. I think they will certainly grow though, if you look at their recent earnings report IB financials were broken out on different line items. It used to be lumped in with "wholesale banking" or something. They are also operating under an asset cap which may make lending difficult, would have to assume that will be coming to a conclusion soon. On the other aspect you mentioned (EU, Asain competitors), I think that American firms have a natural advantage when it comes to US banking.
I don't really see Mizuho and SMBC on some of the deals that Wells is on. FIG seems to do well: ICE/Ellie Mae lead advisor, Resolution/Voya, Capital One mortgage portfolio to Credit Suisse. They're typically not lead on M&A, but were involved with Comcast/Sky, Brookfield/GDP, a Broadcom deal, Apollo/TechData. I think they may also be number 1 or 2 in Power, Utilities, and Renewables DCM tables for last 5 years.
RBC has a better chance of being a Top 5 BB than WF
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I think a lot of their retail and commercial banking scandals over the past 6 years haven't helped. There's a great Netflix documentary on it. I'm sure a lot of it has changed, but they've always seemed to have some internal issues with leadership.
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I’ve seen a lot of posts asking what’s bad about XYZ bank. It’s definitely a good idea to understand the opportunity available at different places and not be misguided about what you should expect if you work there. But in the days of of Finmemes etc. there’s a culture around shitting on banks just for fun. If you get an offer and it’s the best one for you and this is what you want to do then don’t let the jokes of a bunch of anonymous overworked idiots online dissuade you.
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Why does everyone shit on WF? I mean they have had like 5 CEOs in the last few years and numerous big scandals...might be part of the reason.
From what I can tell their bread and butter is investment grade corporate clients, usually debt deals. Not as high profile and sexy stuff as others
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Wells doesn't like risk so unlikely they will ever be top 5. Remember, it is easy to grow as an investment bank, just misprice some risk and get as big as you want! The party only comes crashing down the next time the economy takes a shit. Wells doesn't want that. The new CEO wants growth and with a big balance sheet they'll slowly get it. Jamie Dimon once said Wells would be a top IB firm in a short time (this was pre scandal(s)). WF advisory is shit, but never discount a big fat balance sheet for capital markets activity.
It’s a balance sheet bank. All they do is capital markets which if you like is good but I personally think m&a is the most interesting product
This is pretty much it.
Your parents and chicks will think you’re a bank teller.
I don't mind this, would rather find a girl who likes me because I'm me, instead of liking me because I work at ***insert bank here***
I'm trying to imagine a sorority girl at a party/a drunk chick at a bar huffing and walking away because you work at Wells Fargo and not Goldman Sachs
Curious how you came to the conclusion that bank prestige was one of the new checkmarks for female attraction
This was so close to a great Hey Leonardo reference (and yes, you're probably too young for that song).
Nothing’s bad about them, but like many things in life it’s easy to compare them with a better bank/group. Like many say, their biggest competitive advantage is their massive balance sheet. The vast majority of their IB fees come from debt underwriting/DCM/corporate lending type functions rather than purely advisory roles. Many people on WSO like to think that mainly advisory roles (like M&A and some coverage group work) are the pinnacle of IB, and admittedly that is not one of WF’s strengths. But, if you’re into debt/lending/capital markets it’s a great place to be.
how is M&A not capital markets?
In my mind capital markets has always been strictly been about raising money for corporations or dealing with the resulting securities - IPOs, bonds, structured finance, S&T, etc. M&A is definitely related but I’ve always considered it (and more “advisory” in general) distinct from capital raising.
Because it’s definitionally not?
Capital markets is ECM and DCM
How are they for LevFin?
like a lot of the groups at WF, good but not exceptionally great. they’re only based in Charlotte for analysts to my knowledge but they get worked pretty hard from what I hear. can’t speak too much about exits - most people in the group probably self-select for working around the Charlotte area but I’m sure if you had a mind to exit to PE/PC/etc in New York you’d have a decent chance if you wanted to.
Bad hours, good people, and good deal flow but not great exits because most of their dealflow's corporate refis, not sponsor backed financings.
Charlotte
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worked in WFS IB. non-stop pitching for deals you'll never be lead on
What group?
Second this. Constant pitches (think 40+ pages) for things the bank doesn’t have a prayer of winning. And because all they do is pitch, they take the pitches very seriously. So you get barraged with comments. Now at a bank that actually has live stuff going on and the pitching that is done isn’t nearly as obnoxious.
Wells gets most of its IB revenue from being right bookrunner on capital markets or leveraged loans. From a coverage analyst perspective this means you’re either doing an internal credit memo or nothing.
The bank sees a $ of revenue from cap markets or corp banking as equal to a $ from advisory. So you’re constantly pitching companies that wouldn’t hire you because even if they don’t give you an M&A mandate, they might give you $750k for active bookrunner (near zero work) or maybe they will give the CB lead on a term loan (zero IB work).
So you’re a bot that churns out internal memos and pitches. If it’s the only offer you have then that’s fine, but plan to lateral in a year or shop your internship offer.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
This is the answer. I would suggest you lateral out of their when you get a chance. I don't see WF lead debt issuance transactions either. Its usually JLA/JBR opps which Mizuho/ SMBC, do all day.
From an earnings perspective for any bank a $ of CapMarkets revenue is a $ just like a $ from advisory. And as you said it if it's a $ paid for doign 0 work they'll take it I guess - although it may not be the best/most exciting experience for sure.
How were you perceived when lateraling? Did anyone feel that you weren't running M&A processes (since you're saying you were mostly doing debt)? What group if you don't mind?
How easy was it to lateral - what group if you don't mind?
Do you feel any actual positive change since the new CEO stepped in the office
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